Two weekends ago, my four year old son managed to buy a £15 PSP game through the Sony Store. Sony refuse to give a refund "because he accepted the terms" and because they "don't give refunds".
I pointed out that not being able to read, he couldn't have accepted the terms. They still refuse to give a refund for a product that is unused. Full details as to how your four year old can easily buy stuff follows:
One of the great things about the PS3 was the Playstation Store. Buy and download games and content from a single online shop provided by Sony. They even let you have a "quick buy" option, where details are saved and purchases are made though a few clicks of the X button.
This has worked well for me for over two years now. Even drunk I can manage to buy the new Singstar or Rock Band songs I want. So all was well and good.
The store is quite difficult to navigate, this is an advantage as it has meant that there's no way my youngest son can buy anything. You need the ability to read to be able to navigate the menus.
At the start of September, Sony added a "What's New" feature. This is essentially an advertising billboard that appears when you switch on the PS3. The screen has lots of details of new products, a lift of things you've done recently and... adverts for games currently sold.
One Sunday morning my son turned on the PS3 to watch a DVD. He's getting quite confident now and can manage this. However, when the PS3 booted, the "What's New" feature had an advert for Ratchet and Clank: Size Matters for the PSP. He thought is looked like a great game, so pressed X on it to play it. Here's where Sony fail.
The ad leads right to your basket to buy the game. All you need to do to actually make the purchase is to press X a few times. You add to the basket, agree to the terms and add funds to your account. Which is what he did putting me £14.99 out of pocket for a game I can get physically for a fiver.
So, Sony have essentially laid out a honey pot for kids with access to PS3's. Nice!
Of course, Sony will understand the issue, can see I haven't downloaded the game and refund me the money? Nope - they do not issue refunds.
I can understand the problem, but surely they can give me the money back as a credit? Remove my access to the game and then let me spend the £14.99 on something else with them?
Nope, they are sticking the line on this one. They've tricked my four year old into buying a game he can't play (it's rated 7+, so too old for him, I don't know what the legal ramifications are of that).
Still waiting for a final outcome, but they were very definite in their last reply of "no refunds".
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Can you create him his own log-in with an age filter (do they do that?) and password yours? Not much help for rip-off Sony, but might stop it happening again.
ReplyDeleteI've passworded it now (bolted the door after the horse bolted and all of that) :)
ReplyDeleteIt was fine before, as it wasn't possible for him to buy from the store. Having an ad for a game with a link right on boot up made it possible. You don't have any option on that either. Annoying...
It was your fault for letting your son onto your PS3. If you saved your details and you let a little child have the control then more fool on you. It's your fault as one; you left you area open and he should have his own area and you should set his to always log in, and two; you shouldn't have your credit card details saved in your PS3 if you let your son go on it. Not Sony's fault. YOUR FAULT. Why should Sony go to the trouble of refunding it? They don't know who did it, plus it's your fault and not theirs. YOU saved your details, YOU let your son control your PS3 and YOU agreed to their terms and conditions - ITS YOUR FAULTS NOT SONY'S! GROW UP AND ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY!
ReplyDeleteLOL! Read the thing properly. It was a change in the way Sony set things up that caused the problem. If the update had said "do you wish to display ads as soon as you log on and make buying from the ads a two click process?" - I would have answered "No!"
ReplyDeleteThe update made it simple for a child of four to buy a game, prior to the update, it was not possible for a child of four to buy a game.
It's a very subtle thing, I changed nothing, SONY did. I'd been running happily in this way since I got the PS3 and SONY made a change that allowed for this to happen.
If Sony make a change, then they should make sure that you are aware of the potential consequences of that chage. If I had been aware that they would be feeding ads directly to the PS3 on logon, then I would have found out how to switch it off (not that Sony tell you that you can).
End of the day, everything was fine. Sony changed something, everything is not fine. The root cause may be my "fault", but the trigger was pulled by Sony.
I am pointing out a flaw in the way Sony have set up this "What's New" feature. I hope others can read this and also realise that there is a potential issue. I've always admitted my side of the fault, I know there is blame there - I've always accepted that. However, Sony then added somethnig that exposed that fault which was hidden and did a grand customer service job of denying any wrong doing without any attempt at understanding. Oh, I assume you work for Sony? ;)
And just to make sure I'm clear on this.
ReplyDeleteOn the Tuesday that week, everything was fine.
On the Wednesday, everything was fine.
Every day until I did the update, everything was fine.
After the update, things are not fine.
Something happened to make the change from "fine" to "not fine". It was an update from Sony, hence the "partial" blame on Sony! I hope that's all clear now :)
The whole point of that feature is so that people can access the newest editions faster than before. Also when you downloaded the update you read what the new updates were in that firmware edition? Granted it doesn't tell you exactly but it gives you an idea as to what is included. I'm not being funny but if your son explored to the Playstation Store icon and then just kept pressing X he would of bought something just like he did in the case of the What New section.
ReplyDeleteSony has no blame. The blame is entirely on your shoulders and no one elses. You let a little child onto your account when you had your payment details saved - that is stupidity in itself. You shouldn't have your details saved - or if you did it because it is faster to purchase products from the Playstation Store then your shooting yourself in the foot - as Sony added the What's New section for that purpose to so if you blame them for doing that, you did it also by saving your details.
Accept full responsibility and stop passing some of the blame off to Sony. They never forced your son into buying it so how can they be to blame? If you went into a shop when drunk and bought an item then the next day you regreted it, would you go into that shop and have a go at them for selling it to you? NO! Nothing is different in this case.
And for your information, I do not work for Sony so don't try and pull that card with me.
Yesterday fine.
ReplyDeleteToday not fine.
The reason its not fine was not something I did, but something Sony did.
If Sony are completely faultless, then the update did not allow for the money to be spent. The update did, so some of the fault is with Sony. I never even asked for the cash back, just a transfer to get something else from them - they still get the money.
This is not "buyers regret", Sony made a fundamental change to the way things work which allowed a fault to become apparent. If I buy somethnig when drunk, I accept the responsibility, I am an adult. A child is not responsible for their actions and procedures should be in place (on both sides) to make it difficult for a child to do these things. I have always accepted my fault in this, but the fact remains that everything was fine until the update.
Did I want the "What's New" feature? No. Did I have any option but to add it? No. If you don't do a system upgrade, then you can't access the store, games updates, etc. So the update was enforced, and turned on. If an update can expose flaws, it should be turned off by default. Then when I had a chance to study this and look at it in detail, I could have avoided the pitfalls.
The update details are as follows:
[Information Board] has been replaced by [What's New] and contains new designs and new features.
Not exactly a gold mine of information regarding single click through to buy things. The Information Board also didn't have this functionality, so why would you assume that its replacement would?
It appears that Microsoft have a slighter better customer attitude to these kind of issues (accidental purchasing isn't unique to Sony):
ReplyDeletehttp://xbox.joystiq.com/2009/11/02/ms-point-buying-dog-gets-gamertag-owner-gets-refund
Point of a business? To make money - and companies will try anything to get people to spend money. Adding the What's New feature was Sony's way of capturing their audiences attention and it works. If you son is not capable of knowing what not to press then that is your responsibility to teach him or to supervise him while he uses the PS3. If you have your details saved then you should supervise your child if you can't, then don't save your details. Simple as. It was an accident waiting to happen and he could of done it before the What's New feature was added as I stated above.
ReplyDeleteSony shouldn't have to go to the trouble of giving you credit as how can they prove that you haven't used the game? You could of downloaded it and then blamed your son on downloading it and then they remove the game from your account but you still have it on a PSP - Yes it's petty but some people are like that (and I am not saying you did that or that you are petty). As for the updates being mandatory well that because firmware updates change how the system runs altogether. An example would be how the internet browser runs in the background when playing a game such as how the Killzone website runs from the Killzone game - this does this as it allocates space for the browser to be used. Now if the firmware wasn't updated then that feature of Killzone cannot be used.
That Microsoft story is for publicity and that only. Your story is written on your own blog and that other blokes story was written on several gaming sites and Microsoft saw it as good publicity and took the opportunity for it. If it didn't hit gaming websites then nothing would of been done, simple as. Plus his case can be proved as the credit would still be in his account whereas as you bought something and it cannot be proved if it had been used.
I will refer back to my original point - Money! Microsoft, Sony & Nintendo are all after it and don't care how they get it. People will only see a return on errors if it gets put into the limelight. That’s the way companies are nowadays. Yes not great customer service but it happens. Yes I would be peeved if your case happened to me, but it is human nature to pass blame if not fully but some of it off to someone else. Sony is not to blame as they never made your son purchase it.
Sadly, it's not possible to always watch what a four year old does. Although I welcome you to come round and show me your expert parenting prowess (there's a line on mothers on Facebook I know who are also willing for you to come round and help them out).
ReplyDeleteSony can prove I didn't download the game because - it was sitting undownloaded. The process wasn't complete and the game sat awaiting download. It had not been activated, just purchased - so Sony had 100% proof that the game was unused, undownloaded and not played.
To go with your analogy.
An ice cream van parks outside and my son says "I'd like an ice cream". I have the discression of saying "yes" or "no" to him. The choice is mine.
If there was a fiver lying on the table, and I wasn't in the room, then it's conceivable he could pick it up, walk to the ice cream van and ask for an ice cream and pay for it. However, the process is not one he is overly familiar with and it would mean going against his normal set patterns - but it isn't impossible, just very very unlikely.
What Sony have essentially done though is left the ice cream van and come knocking door to door with ice creams in hand.
Now, in that instance, if a man knocking on the door said "would you like to buy an ice cream?" to a young boy (how does answer our door)then he would simply answer "yes". The man says "you need money" and the boy sees it on the table and pays.
Nobody forced the boy to buy the ice cream. There has been no criminal activity involved. Yet does the fault lay at me for leaving the fiver alone, or for happening to be up to my elbows in washing up when the ice cream vendor appeared at the door? These things happen.
In that case, I think you would suggest that the ice cream vendor was in the wrong for pushing goods.
I've also checked on this, and Sony are actually wrong legally. They cannot enforce the terms and conditions as my son cannot read. Even if I signed an overall "agreement", the last document issued is the binding one. The last document issued was agreed by somebody who can be proven not to have read and understood the conditions. So the agreements are null and void in this case.
The problem is, that I would have to take this to the small claims court to get the £14.99 back from Sony. Which is obviously far too much effort for the sake of fifteen pounds. However, it doesn't mean that I can't make the point and vent a spleen in my spare time. Maybe others will see this, and lock down their accounts. Maybe others will see this and also have had the same issue and sympathise? Who knows, but there's only good from whinging and nothing bad - it's not going to put a huge dent in Sony's profits and it makes me feel better about it.
Of course, Sony could accept the "idiot factor" and do what the software industry did a long time ago (after it was decided that 'click through' agreements weren't legally binding).
ReplyDeleteYou set the default answer to questions like "Do you agree?" and "Confirm Purchase?" to NO, not yes (or press square for yes or something). Then canines and children couldn't accidentally buy anything :)
Your Ice Cream example is stupid to either compare with this subject. One is being forced into buying it and the other isn't. The Ice Cream vendor is offering it directly to your child whereas Sony isn't. Fair enough if Sony had put 'Click here now' and the purchase instantly went through. Then yes I would blame Sony but it isn't like that. They didn't create the What's New section to trap children or to con people. It ultimately lies with you for not paying attention to your child and the stupidity of you for letting a child onto a gaming system when it has your card details in which he has access to use.
ReplyDeleteYeah, customer service is appauling with most companies. Sony has done nothing wrong. You should of locked your area or removed your card details. Your carlessness. Your fault. IF Sony did give you your money back then they would be doing you a favour. Your just bitter because you lost money and are shifting blame. Case closed.
Meh!
ReplyDelete